Cougars, cubs, and storks

[redfyre]

I found out recently that an old boyfriend, and his current wife are unable to have children. He married her about eleven years ago when he was 35 and she was 26. The irony of this is that he broke up with me about 17 years ago because, in his words "you are too old to have kids, and a relationship without kids isn't worth having". I was 31 at the time, and subsequently went on to successfully conceive and give birth to a healthy baby when I was 39 (not his of course) and without any outside (e.g. IVF) assistance.

I actually feel sorry for him - this post is not about any ancient vengeance. But it made me think about something that is often quoted as to why a younger man will not stay in a relationship with an older woman long-term...the whole issue of young men "needing" to go forth and multiply.

First up, infertility is on the rise among younger couples in Western countries. Things like environmental pollutants,STDs and substance abuse are amongst the reasons. So, a younger woman is no guarantee of fecundity. ALSO - and this is a big one gentlemen, so pay attention - researchers have now decided that men become more infertile as they get older, just like women do. Yes, the odd old man fathers a child, but since the baby mama is usually a very young and highly fertile woman, that is a major contributor. Conversely, an older woman with a much younger partner is more likely to conceive with him, than with a man her own age. Quality of sperm also decreases, leading to higher risk of still birth, birth defects, and the child being at higher risk for certain conditions later in life, including things like schizophrenia.

Also, despite popular mythology, the hard fact is that women still undertake the bulk of child-rearing. Primary attachment for a child is nearly always to the mother (she carried the developing embryo for nine months, and no male can ever compete with that), and when relationships break down, most of the time the woman continues to carry the load with child-rearing. Around 50% of marriages fail...who knows how many de-facto arrangements break down.

When you look at male profiles on cougar sites, a disturbing number state that they want to have children. Disturbing because, even if they say all the right things in their profile, and talk nicely in emails, posts, IMs, etc, they have just given away their real motive. The older woman to them is nothing but a passing phase. Reality dictates that most older women - even if still within their child bearing years - probably don't want to go down that path again.

So...the cubs need to figure out what is really important to them - a great relationship, or the knowledge that they have littered their seed in the world (big deal...any tom cat can do the same). If you are really determined to have your own children one day, then please go and join the long line over there - the one with all the would-be porn stars - all competing for the scant handful of cougars who really don't want anything beyond a casual relationship.

You don't get - or don't deserve to get - an interim relationship with a woman who deserves a lot more than being temporary anything. I am not saying that by embarking on a relationship with a cougar that you have to commit there and then - long term relationships grow slowly, and initial attraction is not always going to grow into love - but in all fairness to the women, you need to be open and available to the idea of a long-term relationship. If you can't be open to that, then you need to figure out why you're really here, be honest with yourself - and us - and if siring children is non-negotiable...then join the right queue.

And bear in mind that there are no guarantees that you will have children of your own anyway - or even if you do that they will grow up under the same roof. And a good relationship - hell, a great relationship - has nothing to do with children.

[lynda]

Redfyre, very well said! Not sure how I have missed this thread but so glad I have read it and hope others, cubs and cougars, will take the time to enjoy the read just like me. You really make a big point in age gap relationships with the younger men. I am sure all of us older women have come across the same in them wanting children and we don't or unable to. It is always one of my main questions when talking to a guy; does he want children? I know if he does then I more than likely do not want to get involved with him. At least saying in a profile you do want children gives the ladies an idea he may stay with you for a while but eventually want to fertilize an egg. There has been many ladies hurt because of such a decision and had to give up someone that she adores. It would be nice to have some of the cubs to give their opinions.

[bigglesworth]

I never looked at it that way Refrye, but I can definitely see your point. I just assumed (makes and A** out of me and you) that they didn't want to proliferate with any older woman, but would be willing to do so with someone nearer their own age. You are right, to have a relationship with an older woman means something deeper than physical sex. It is sex of the mind. I liked what you said about birth defects. I was married and had one "normal" child and then at 30 got pregnant with my daughter who was born with down syndrome. Age does increase these risks even though it can happen at any age, really.

[houstoncougar]

I posted somewhere on here about this subject a while back. I had watched a special on tv that talked about the decline of quality in male sperm as men started to age and it was pretty young like mid 30's. I agree with everything you have to say in this post and always look at guy's profiles to see what they have under that selection. I would like to point out though that some people might view saying yes as meaning that they would not mind if the other person had children. I don't want any more children of my own but, that doesn't mean that I would cancel a guy out just because he had some. The interpretation of the question could be different for some in other words. Just giving the benefit of the doubt here but, I personally lean towards the idea that the're just here out of curiosity and to pass time until they find someone their own age to procreate with and who is willing to care for their offspring.

[sonia]

I tend to agree with HC's point of view but I think a lot depends on the actual age of both people involved. As I am certain I have written on here before - probably several times - I had my son when I was 45 and his father was 30: a wonderful surprise for both of us! But realistically if a guy is in his 20's he may well mean he wants children eventually but not for another 10 years or so perhaps. That would mean that there could not be more than a 10 year gap between himself and any older woman he may have a LTR with if they were to have children together. Does it mean a young guy's desire to have a relationship with an older woman is any less valid because he is not thinking of a 'forever' relationship but rather one within a distinct time frame? Maybe but I honestly don't think an age-gap relationship with a gap of 25 or 30 years will last long-term except in some very exceptional cases.

[lynda]

Sonia, I love it when we are the except to the rule. I know you had a child with someone younger and I had the longterm for 7yrs with someone 30yrs younger and it shows it can happen.

[sonia]

So true Lynda - certainly 7 years is a LTR to me - I don't think I have ever managed longer than that anyway because I get bored: 7 year itch perhaps? But a 'til death do us part' sort of relationship may be unlikely? Although like I said I have never managed one of those regardless of the age of the guy!!

[violet]

Interesting post. Too bad no input from the males. Maybe they haven't gotten that far to think this through yet.

[al3x]

I don't want children, I am 23 (very soon to be sporting my mid life crisis waist at the old age of 24), I enjoy living an active life, I want to up sticks and go skiing when ever, do adventure races, watch the footie or have a weekend away, I want to be able to take a contract 200 miles away from where I live and then come home and be free to go for a few beers and relax.

I removed my profile from the main site as it's just way too manufactured for my tastes, I don't want to know about someone before I talk to them, that's all part of the fun and to know that someone wants children before even speaking to them would just make me close the page and move on. There is almost an air of desperation with online dating, some more prevelent than others, you read so many comments about needing a relationship, needing someone else, I might like a relationship IF things worked out after a while but to go in saying you need this that and the other is just a massive turn off. For me dating has to be light hearted and open initially, not rigid and set in stone, "I want kids", "I want a family", "I want Mr. Perfect" (urghhhh *shivers*), I'd just have to say all the best and move on

I am here to enchance my life if possible, not to strike off a check list on my list of things to do...

So with that in mind, where is the Rich Goddess that will be the mother of my children hiding? Don't be shy!

[lunamor]

Ha ha! Yea, I share that aversion to checklist-style "Are you right for the job?" approach - curiosity, mystery and discovery are better!