Ask An Older Woman Thread (all you ever wanted to know)

[sealion]

whether they have been as eloquent or not, the attacks on the guys are based on principal. For instance if I would turn the tables I would repeat the comments that surfkitty and westcougar are simply treating guys like objects and discarding them when all is said and done and either of the two are ready to settle down to something etc. etc. etc.

[westcougar]

Originally Posted by sealion

whether they have been as eloquent or not, the attacks on the guys are based on principal. For instance if I would turn the tables I would repeat the comments that surfkitty and westcougar are simply treating guys like objects and discarding them when all is said and done and either of the two are ready to settle down to something etc. etc. etc.

Fair comment. The difference is, I suppose, I'm being upfront about it. I'm not doing what some younger men seem to do, which is promise a happily ever after and then take off after a few intimate encounters.

I definitely would only have this type of a situation with a man who I respected and liked as a friend; I don't discard old friends when I get new ones so I wouldn't do that in this situation. Any relationship I may form will have very clear parameters, a clear understanding on both our parts of what we want and don't want and a definite decision that it will not develop any further than we both agree on IN ADVANCE.

I think it's probably safe to say, if a man was on here and was honest and upfront and said what I said, he'd get a few critics but most people would respect his honesty and wish him well.

[vita]

Originally Posted by sealion

whether they have been as eloquent or not, the attacks on the guys are based on principal. For instance if I would turn the tables I would repeat the comments that surfkitty and westcougar are simply treating guys like objects and discarding them when all is said and done and either of the two are ready to settle down to something etc. etc. etc.

I didn't read westcougar's post as being *anything* like the kind of rubbish messages which are received daily on here by women. As she (WC) later replies to you, it's quite clear that, whilst she's not looking for commitment, in the way we might traditionally understand it, she is looking for casual relationships within a respectful kind of context. That's not our experience, as women, when approached for nsa anon sex - and I think I articulated the differences in my post by referring to a situation outside of the heterosexual world.

You've got to be very naive about how most men looking for nsa anon sex operate if you think they give a s-h-i-t about what comes out of your mouth. For me, there is nothing even remotely appealing in that and I really don't get why the men who repeatedly try it on in such a way don't learn that pretty damned quick from the common responses they surely must receive. And yet still they think that just by being young and attractive to look at, they'll get the NSA anon sex they crave.

And yet when you say there's absolutely nothing sexually appealing in some man having a "any hole's a goal" approach to you, they seem to assume, therefore, you're looking for a serious committed relationship. No. There's a whole spectrum of activities between those two positions - many of which are being articulated by women on this thread. I wish such men would learn about the world as it is rather than as they want it to be.

[abergirl]

Vita, that is so true.. as I'm not looking for nsa myself, I seem to have a problem explaining the guys that I don't necessarily expect a serious relationship either. There are indeed many things between the two and it seems hard to get guys to see that...

[vita]

Following on from what you say, abergirl, I think, there's often a real difficulty in communication between the genders. When we say we want to be "respected", we're talking about common decency, that you'd expect of anyone, strangers off the street, even, let alone from someone you might consider doing something intimate with, like sex. And the way in which many of these explicit sexual messages are framed, is anything but that. They are dehumanising. It's not surprising that many of us get annoyed when men (who do it) start on the forums as well as in private (though my observation is that the forums don't seem nearly as bad as the private messages). What we (or most of us) are not talking about when we use the word "respect" is some kind of old fashioned notion of women being passive, delicate, non-sexual beings. We can, and want to, be sexual - just not on these insulting terms: that it really doesn't matter who we are, what we look like, so long as we have the right holes. And I'm being deliberately crude because this really is how it is for the men who are making approaches in this kind of way, however they might attempt to dress it up, on occasions. (I once had some man wax lyrical about my hair..I think he was a scammer though rather than a NSA anon sex obsessive. Too much effort put in)

These men, I think, make it really tough for the rest of you, the few men on here who are genuinely trying to connect, in whatever way, with the women here because the more they do it, the more defences and barbed wires go up over time towards all men on the site. I know I'm not as open and as optimistic as WC appears to be right now (for example)

[abergirl]

Have to agree again, Vita. I know I have become less trusting as time has gone on, and don't feel that i expect the best from men anymore. Latest episode, was in contact with a guy on here, talking on phone etc, arranging a meet, then all contact stopped. No idea why. Usually it's because I won't get into sex chat or cam sex with them, which proves thats all those particular guys wanted. But I agree it makes it harder for those decent guys who are out there, as my defences are certainly raised now.

One guy from here, who asked me to give him a chance despite the fact he was younger than I would usually go and lived at some distance, also stopped contact when, I assume, he got bored or found someone nearer. Before anyone says it, I realise we are not "owed" anything but some common decency wouldn't go amiss...as Vita says some of the messages we receive dehumanise us..and I don't want to be a cynic or not be optimisitic; it goes against all I believe in and truly feel about the human race.

[laine175]

Abergirl I couldn't agree with you more..it's hard not to become cynical just when you think you have it cracked they revert to form. It's discouraging....but I do believe we have some genuine guys on here who I'm sure have been through some similar situations in reverse and I feel for them too.

[bayridgebabe]

Vita & Abergirl I can't agree with either of more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Vita your last 2 post hit the nail on the head for me & my way of thinking, it's like you were reading my mind so a GREAT BIG THANK YOU for saying what you said. Yes Abergirl you too are correct & I feel the same way about your post as I did with Vita's. I could not have said it any better that the 2 of you did. My hats off to the both of you & Ty again & again & again for expressing what I so wanted to say but just didn't know the right way to say it. You two ladies are TOPS in my book GREAT BIG (((((((HUGS))))))) to the both of you

[sealion]

i think my point might have been missed. That's ok. In another area I was in a discussion today about how even today there is still the pressure for the guy to do the asking first, after a while, investing excessive amounts of time just to be rejected etc. wears down and then people start to rely on probability and the "oh well, on to the next one." It might seem impersonal but it is a coping mechanism for those who are pressured to take the initial risk (in most cases the guy).

[houstoncougar]

I just don't get where you think it's the guy taking the risk... a risk of what? Most of the guys on here and other sites don't have the balls to meet if that was even their real intent in the first place. What we are trying to explain to you is that they come in asking for im chat which USUALLY leads to sex chat then if you don't cut it off right there they expect sex camming or phone sex and that's if they even talk to you after you tell them that "no, I don't have naughty pics of myself to send you". You seem like a pretty nice guy and are very good looking I find it hard to believe that you have not been snatched up by one of these beautiful ladies already.

Now, about wc's idea of a casual relationship. Most of the dating I have done over the last few years has been of that nature albeit mostly with one guy at a time. One of the major discoveries I have made is that even though guys say that this type of relationship is exactly what they are looking for it turns out to not be true. When you don't "need" them they tend to cling, grow needy and generally become a bit of a nuisance even though it was all discussed before hand.

I will have to reread this later as I am not sure if I have made myself clear due to being exhausted from a team building retreat.