Feminism is so passe. It's the boys who need help

[lunamor]

ahaha Cooper Sorry to disappoint anyone who wants to believe that I'm angry, but no loss of temper on my side (by nature I have a very happy disposition - lucky me! ). Of course Sonia's right: I have nothing to say about boys so if she ever gets around to actually talking about that, she'll have plenty of space and fewer distractions, and I'm sure it will be well worth reading.

[sonia]

BBC NEWS | Education | Girls 'hampered by failure fears'

The above is a very interesting and relevant article on the subject of the achievement of girls in school - and of boys of course. Violet as much as it pains me to admit of course I read the original post which was the DM article because otherwise I could hardly refute what it states could I? And I did not want to 'discount the topic' but merely the DM article which was passing an opinion on the topic. And on that topic I would be very interested to know why the woman you refer to feels her sons are getting 'short shrift'. I have a son in the state school system in the UK and I have daughters who have gone through it and I do not feel he is disadvantaged in comparison to them. It might be too easy to blame the educational system if you have low achieving sons. It is true that women have become more successful than men academically in the past decade or so but still lets examine those who are in positions of high status and power in the UK today - whether it is in government, business or law and we find the vast majority are men. Is that because, as Sandra Parsons explains, childcare is holding women back but hey they want it that way! Really? I doubt the truth of that.
It is my view that in our society in the UK today the main indicator of disadvantage is what socio- economic group a person is born into ( and tends to stay in). And within each group there is further disadvantage depending on your gender and ethnicity. Sandra Parsons may feel that she has had no problems achieving her goals but would the single mother struggling to feed her children on a minimum wage cleaning job feel that she has not been disadvantaged? I doubt it.
Oh and Cooper - wicked boy!

[redfyre]

I have sons, too, and do not feel either of them have been disadvantaged in the public school system here in Australia. I think the public system - certainly in the primary school levels (years 1-6) - is very even handed in it's gender treatment. I certainly believe that physical activity should be a more important part of school curriculums, but it is beneficial to both genders, for many reasons. Stating that it assists boys to vent their aggressive impulses is simplistic, and overlooks the point that if parents believe their children would benefit from more physical activity, then it is their responsibility as parents to supply the activity - not sit and whine because the schools do not provide it.

If there is a growing trend for girls to outperform boys academically, then one of the reasons that has to be considered is, perhaps it has nothing to do with boys being suppressed; maybe girls simply perform better academically, when the playing field is even in other respects? This is not to suggest girls are "smarter" than boys, but maybe they are better predisposed to study.

But what concerned me most about this article - and I have seen other sentiments expressed elsewhere - is the idea that the feminist movement has accomplished what it set out to do, and has in fact, tipped the balance of power in favour of women, to the detriment of men. I strongly disagree with that idea. There are still a number of men who hanker after the "old days"; when women stayed in the home, and men were pre-eminent in all things. And whilst men such as this still have active roles in politics, law, police and military, and other powerful bodies, then women are still subject to their outdated concepts of gender dynamics. And this is in the countries that have supposedly embraced gender equality. There are many nations in the world where women are still strictly confined to gender roles that render them virtually powerless.

Feminism is definitely not passe. I will agree that it has been side-tracked by certain agendas - I do not agree with the concept that men have to be marginalised, because that is not equality either. But feminism will never be outdated as a movement, until we reach a time where the idea of one gender being superior to the other is considered archaic...by everyone.

We're definitely not there yet.

[violet]

I see a lot of backlash in the media these days claiming that feminism has gone too far, that women already have achieved their goals, etc. This is hardly the case. As Sonia pointed out, the ones still in power are largely male. Women in the western world have just barely achieved some equality after millennia of not having any and all of a sudden we are "taking over". Suggesting that the educational system is an example of preferential treatment to females is just one example of the backlash. The educational system could use an overhaul, but basing that on gender alone is simplistic. The following is a link to an animated version of Sir Ken Robinson's talk on changing educational paradigms to one that celebrates individuality. That might be a step in the right direction as regards education.

‪RSA Animate - Changing Education Paradigms‬‏ - YouTube

His talk Do Schools Kill Creatvity is brilliant as well.

[tiffanyfontaine]

I'm an educator and I am constantly amazed at how few boys/men remain in my classes at the end of the term. I'm known as a no nonsense teacher who expects all my students to put in effort and to attend my classes regularly. The guys drop out quickly.

Often, at the end of the semester, there are only two or three guys remaining in my classes and a room full of women. My female students comment about this fact and none of us have had the insight to figure out why the guys seem to lack the academic stamina to follow through with challenging courses.

I don't think there's just one answer as to why, generally, male students seem uninspired in the 21st century. I know statistics show many more women are graduating now from university than males.

[violet]

Here's another point of view which suggests that the reason men make higher salaries while getting lower grades in school could be due to a statistical quirk stemming from nature's tendency to "roll the dice" with men more than women. Men are not only found more often at the top, but also at the bottom of society.

Denis Dutton

An excerpt:

"Nature rolls the dice with men more than women. Men go to extremes more than women. It’s true not just with IQ but also with other things, even height: The male distribution of height is flatter, with more really tall and really short men.
Again, there is a reason for this, to which I shall return.
*********** For now, the point is that it explains how we can have opposite stereotypes. Men go to extremes more than women. Stereotypes are sustained by confirmation bias. Want to think men are better than women? Then look at the top, the heroes, the inventors, the philanthropists, and so on. Want to think women are better than men? Then look at the bottom, the criminals, the junkies, the losers.
*********** In an important sense, men really are better AND worse than women.
*********** A pattern of more men at both extremes can create all sorts of misleading conclusions and other statistical mischief. To illustrate, let’s assume that men and women are on average exactly equal in every relevant respect, but more men at both extremes. If you then measure things that are bounded at one end, it screws up the data to make men and women seem significantly different.
Consider grade point average in college. Thanks to grade inflation, most students now get A’s and B’s, but a few range all the way down to F. With that kind of low ceiling, the high-achieving males cannot pull up the male average, but the loser males will pull it down. The result will be that women will get higher average grades than men — again despite no difference in average quality of work.
*********** The opposite result comes with salaries. There is a minimum wage but no maximum. Hence the high-achieving men can pull the male average up while the low-achieving ones can’t pull it down. The result? Men will get higher average salaries than women, even if there is no average difference on any relevant input.
*********** Today, sure enough, women get higher college grades but lower salaries than men. There is much discussion about what all this means and what should be done about it. But as you see, both facts could be just a statistical quirk stemming from male extremity."

[lunamor]

Violet, that's really interesting information. I've never heard it before but it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for posting it!

[lovelyj]

My son is definitely discriminated against in American public school. He is a very bright boy, does well on tests and yet can't be bothered with the rote learning "kill and drill" style that we have here in the California Public School systems. I think that boys tend to be less focused in class, and could use more physical play and indeed even work (you can learn a lot of science and math in a school garden!) outside of the classroom.

The current school curriculum where my kids go to school is geared towards the female mentality. Girls are, generally (she says, tip toeing) more apt to sit quietly, listen to the teacher, stay focused on the task at hand and want to please their teacher.

Boys grow restless and are much more engaged in the matierial is presented creatively. And yet those bright minds are looked over completely as the grade levels go up. I have a daughter and a son in the system and I can definitely see who gets rewarded, who gets shamed, who gets help and who just gets treated rudely. Many boys do not, at age 11 and 12, sit in their seat willingly all day with small breaks.

I am moving my son to a private school this fall that is very progressive and that seems to understand the need for a creative learning environment. We'll see what happens.

I am not sure what the New Feminism means. I find that a little dismissive of the "old feminism" of our day. It was cool to be a woman, rising up in the world. No longer necessary to pass from the hand of her father to the hand of her new husband.

I wish all daughters/sons well in all they do.
and wish them to not be discriminated against, rather to find their strenghths and what brings out the best in them and work from there.

Well, I can dream can't I?